HELP! I think I've found an original 604 in a 605 Cabinet..

[Bobdrfl]

What a wonderful posting board; so many quick responses. I'm certainly grateful.

I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the next steps; if I list on eBay or how I list or what manner are all to be decided (auction, buy it now, time period, etc.). We've been on eBay quite a bit lately, selling items we no longer need and anything I can gather or pick up that has some value. This kind of a find never figured into what we've been doing (china, porcelain, old oddities, etc.). I know a few good shipping/crating/house-hold moving concerns so delivering won't be a problem (probably could even deliver it myself if someone wanted that), but I suspect in a few days it will be much clearer as to how to go about this.

For now, I'm just very relieved that it's being well received and it wasn't just me that was optimistically thinking it was real. I had an idea about the tri-color labels, and it seems like a good low number, but I wanted to be dead sure it was for real and not just an altered version. It's all padded up (I don't want anything to happen to it), especially the very intact and perfect shape front grill.

Any, thanks again to all of you who've written; both my son and I thank you.

[GM]

We got it home and decided to wait until morning (he's 8 and this was like Christmas for us).

I'm attaching pictures (may need another post) but the serial number is 1034, Model 604, Impedance 20. I know the cabinet is a 605 (even a blind horse....

Christmas indeed! If it functions properly except for the XO's caps, not quite tantamount to the little old lady's $200 sale priced pristine '57 fuelie 'Vette out back in the barn, but still on a very short list worldwide since apparently most surviving this long have been re-coned as D's.

I put the 'as delivered' price inflated to 2013 as high as $6500 depending on the year, but will need the 391xxx date code to get closer to a realistic rock bottom minimum short of a major distress sale.

GM

[Bobdrfl]

Dear GM: Much appreciated but (from my end) probably not completely understood. My working knowledge of speakers was through my (recently sold) Marshall with a 4X12 Celestion Cabinet. I have not done ANYTHING to this one yet, except to dust it off (no polish, no wiring, nothing). I was (and rightfully so) and am not willing to risk any kind of damage due to ignorance, which I've been particularly blessed with an abundance.

I was hoping in discussions here to get some pointers; should I just hook it up to any old amplifier; should I keep the volume (wattage output) low to comply with the 25 Watts maximum; should I put an electrical meter on it and if so where and to measure what; etc. Years ago (when I still played guitar meaningfully), I had the good fortune of working with "Voice of the Theater" PA Systems, but the thought of hurting one never entered into our minds; in fact, due to copious quantities of alcohol and a host of pharmaceutical friends, not much of anything entered our minds. So now I have to ask to be told like a slower 7 year old (no disrespect implied to 7 year old's the world over) lest I hurt this jewel. For example; what and where are the date codes you refer to ("391XXX") and can I get to them or see them without disturbing or removing the speaker?

I was able to find a line to one that sold back almost 2 years ago (June 2011). It's a few months older but the cabinet and speaker doesn't appear to be in the same condition (his is a bit more used or worn). It sold for $6500 after 15 bids. I don't know how the economy may have effected it as of today, but this one is in better (cosmetic) condition all around (just from what is obvious). I will test it's working condition once I hear from a few of you folk that would not have me destroy it.

I like the metaphor to the 'Vette; only hoping this one works as well as it did in 1944?

[Alien_Shore]

It will be necessary to pull the speaker out of the cabinet and inspect it closely if you intend to put it up for auction and get top-dollar for it. Collectors will want to see high-quality close-ups of the speaker and cabinet to know if they are bidding on an original. Here is a good example of some of the details that you'll want to look for in an original "RWB 604"

Owned Played by Les Paul Altec 604 Hollywood RWB Speaker All Original | eBay

You will want to check the functionality of the speaker as well. Using your DVM, set it for ohms (DC Resistance) and check both sets of speaker terminals. You'll want to take pictures of those readings as well to show the voice coils are in-tact. As you mentioned, you can hook the speaker up for a listening test, although the crossover is likely to be in pretty terrible shape; anything around since WWII probably has some "issues" Let us know if you want help in how best to hook it up and conduct a listening test.

As far as the cabinets go, someone already mentioned using Howards on them - look at your local box store for Feed-N-Wax. It's great to revitalize a beautiful old hardwood cabinet like that.

Also, for fun, here is one of the original marketing pamphlets of this speaker from the mid-40's:

Altec 604 Introduction Brochure

[GM]

Well, I seriously doubt it will ever perform quite like it did originally anymore than the ?Vette would when lubricated and ?fed? modern oil, fuel blends.

Its sheer age combined with long term lack of use has compromised its diaphragm, surround?s ability to track the signal the same, ditto the horn driver?s; plus the XO?s replacement caps will have deteriorated too much by now and don?t have a modern equivalent in ?tone?.

FWIW, some collectors pay more for ?as is? when it?s obvious that it?s a ?diamond in the rough?, so you may not want to do any cleaning up of the cab, etc. at least until you get a good ?feel? for the prevailing market.

Personally, I wouldn?t even dust off such a ?find? beyond what a fine feather duster could remove, at least until I could confirm its likely condition once properly cleaned up.

I mean no serious collector of ?anything? would ever willingly trust a private seller that just lucked up on an all original [much less relatively rare] ?find? to correctly modify it in any way beyond what it took to document its condition and properly package for shipment when required.

WRT speaker components, disconnecting wiring and removing the driver[s] to comprehensively document its condition, checking for any open or shorted voice coils [VC], cracked /corroded wiring, VC ?rub? by applying a uniform pressure around the spider [very little on an original 604 as it has no linear excursion [Xmax], so I wouldn?t try more than maybe an 1/8? and certainly no more than a ??].

Ideally, the horn?s rear cover and loading cap [if installed] should be removed to test, document its diaphragm, but with its strong magnet, this has proved disastrous for many, so ?caveat emptor?.

Unless you have the appropriate test gear, I don?t recommend powering it up even if the VCs, surrounds are OK unless done individually with the appropriate BW limited pink noise for each without the XO at only ~0.01 W max since there will be no cab loading.

Date codes can be anywhere on the basic driver and some have even been found on the cab.

Again, $6500 could be just a starting point. If it?s truly pristine except for the XO caps, a contemporary version, i.e. GPA 604 S3 in a hand crafted cab could cost 4x or more since such skilled labor has far outpaced inflation, but it?s currently a buyer?s market, so if you can afford to keep it till the market swings your way????..

GM

[Bobdrfl]

Dear Alien: Thanks for the information. I certainly didn't want to devalue it by doing something foolish. I'll hook up my multi-tester and see what kind of readings I get. After I get those I'll let you know and if you think it's appropriate, I'll do a sound check per your instructions. The crossover (according to the Introduction Guide) is not only original (see pictures) it looks like it's brand new in appearance. I checked on your RWB 604 (Les Paul) and mine is similar in all respects but appears to be less "used" in appearance (and it's a lower serial number). I'll take it out of the cabinet carefully, photograph it, test it, and then put it right back inside. There is one very small (1.25" long) tear in the paper, but it is not separated (took me till now to find it).2013-04-02 11.30.28.jpg

I haven't done anything to the cabinets because I wanted them to be as original as possible (have no intentions of making misrepresentations or misleading anyone). If applying oil to them will help I'm sure anyone would see that as just normal care, so I'm happy to do it.

One last question (for now): You're certain that taking out the speaker is not tampering/altering/etc. and that assuming I don't drop it onto concrete, it should be fine to do? THANKS AGAIN!

[Altec Best]

Awesome Find ! Congratulations !

[Bobdrfl]

Dear GM: Thanks so much for the thoughts and efforts to explain them to me. I've read it a few times and have come to the conclusion that a sensible alternative to me fiddling around with this might be to take it to a local "lab" and let them perform the checks and issue a certificate of health (or not). It would cost a few dollars but it also might increase it's worth, as you suggest. I spent (borrowed on a credit card) to pay for it (which has been against our plan and nature to gamble right now on anything) so a few dollars for experts to do the physical might make the most sense; I could also show that an independent third party provided the testing and that they will stand behind it (also may be of value to a potential buyer).

My thought now is to let it sit securely padded and protected, until I can figure out (with all the astonishing help I'm gathering here) what makes the most sense. Saving a few dollars by trying to "do it myself" may be the biggest mistake and regret that can happen. How much can a local lab charge?

Thanks again for all your help and inputs.

[cradeldorf]

We've been in suspense long enough, what did you pay for it?

[Cal Weldon]

Enquiring minds want to know.